Buying An Older Mac Blog

Buying An Older Mac Blog

FROM MARK MARCANTONIO

I need your help in deciding which model to purchase. Im going to upgrade from my Ice Book 500. Looking at the Apple website I have four choices from the remanufactured site:

PowerBook G4 867MHz/256MB/40GB/Combo/E/Aluminum/12″TFT – Refurbished $999.00

PowerBook G4 1GHz/256MB/40GB/Combo/E/Aluminum/12″TFT
$1,099.00

iBook G4 800MHz/256MB/30GB/Combo/E/56K/ 12″ TFT-Refurbished $779.00

iBook G4 1GHz/256MB/30GB/Combo/E/56K/ 12″ TFT-Refurbished $949.00

Let me know what you think. I’m not a games person, I use it for standard teacher stuff including iMovie.

Thanks, Mark

FROM ROGER BORN

Dear Mark:
Go for the lowest cost power book, if, you only want it for word processing and stuff. Regards Roger

FROM OWEN RUBIN:

Well, sorry Roger, but I disagree.

As you and everyone else here probably knows, the processing power will get eaten up by new OS features, new background tasks, and other small things that over time you will get on your system. Without fail, every machine I have ever owned, all of which seemed quite fast at the time and were “more than I will ever need” (and I only used for (mostly) office ), now seem to be pig slow. I recall how fast my 450 MHz G4 desktop machine was when I got it. I still use it, but it seems so damn slow now.

Why? New OS features that Apple, just like Microsoft, creates and tests on the latest and greatest machines, and the engineers that design these new features forget that older machines still need to run these new OS features as well (Having been one of those engineers, we ALWAYS had very fast machines, and we never tested on older machines.) Remember how fast OS-9 was compared to OS-X when you upgraded? So when 10.4 comes out, the lesser machines here will have less power to run the new features.

Given the list, I would go the high side and buy the 1 GHz PowerBook G4 over the 1 GHz iBook as it is only $50 more, and it has a bigger drive, and that will fill up too fast! And as a PowerBook owner, the new Aluminum cases are GREAT!

BTW: Put AT LEAST 512 MB of memory in it, the OS is not really happy running on less and slows down quickly if you open more than a few apps, especially like Word and Entourage. You can always add this later however, as after market memory is cheaper, and it is fairly easy to add.

Just me 2 cents based on owning WAY too many Macs over the years.

FROM ROGER BORN

Owen:

Sorry. I never thought about anyone running OS X on an older Mac.

Why would they want to run the latest OS on an older computer? Its always a disappointment, IMO. Even the newer Apps require a more up-to-date computer, and some won’t even run on something old.

The idea is to run the latest OS that was on that machine when it was new. Then it will be speedy, and quite stable. People who are buying these older Macs already have the older apps they need. These older apps will probably not run under the latest OS anyway.

If you just have to run the newest OS X, then it should be on nothing less than a G5.

That’s my story, and I’m sticking to it.

Roger

FROM OWEN RUBIN

> Sorry. I never thought about anyone running OS X on an older Mac.

You misunderstand me. One buys the machine now, and in 12 months a new OS will come out. That OS will require much more processing power (they always
do) and then his now fast 700+ MHz laptop is too slow. That is running a new OS on an older Mac in the future.

> Why would they want to run the latest OS on an older computer? Its
> always a disappointment, IMO. Even the newer Apps require a more
> up-to-date computer, and some won’t even run on something old.

EXACTLY! In an ideal world, we would buy a machine and never upgrade the OS or the Apps, which is what I believe you are suggesting here. But that does not happen. If I did that, my G3 PowerBook would still be running an early version of OS-9, while it is perfectly happy with 10.2.8 and 10.3 and while not as fast, runs just fine and brings all sorts of new features to an otherwise outdated machine.

> The idea is to run the latest OS that was on that machine when it was
> new. Then it will be speedy, and quite stable. People who are buying
> these older Macs already have the older apps they need. These older
> apps will probably not
> run under the latest OS anyway.

By this rule, people who bought a machine with 10.1 would still be running that piece of crap 10.1 because you do not upgrade. Seems like a bad idea to say I will never upgrade. Are you changing your story now? I hear you say “Oh, for 10.1 to 10.2 it would be OK because 10.2 was so much better. So how do you decide when it is OK to upgrade?

In this case, Mark is buying a machine from Apple that is refurbished, not old. But it will be old in a year when 10.4 comes out. You suggest he not upgrade to 10.4 because he will then have an old machine. I suggest that if he buys the 700+ MHz version, you are probably correct, 10.4 will be a disappointment to him because of lack of power. But a 1 GHz machine should run just fine with the next OS. So why limit your choices right up front. No computer is EVER powerful enough, so start with the best you can do now so it lasts longer.

Besides, application developers do not continue to supply old programs for old OS versions, so if you decided in a year or so to want to run say Photoshop, the new and current version may not run on an OS that is old just because you decided not to upgrade.

> If you just have to run the newest OS X, then it should be on nothing
> less than a G5.

I disagree. The latest OS runs GREAT on my 1.3 GHz machine, and runs fine on my 500 MHz G3. I do not need a G5 to run it. I also believe that while the G3 will probably not run 10.4 when it comes out, my 17” PowerBook at 1.3 GHz will do just fine with it. By that time, my G3 PowerBook will have given me 5 good years of service, and I am more than happy to replace it. And when I do, I will not need a G5, but will buy the best PowerBook I can afford at that time in the hopes that I will get another 4 to 5 years of service out of my computer.

So lets make this more simple for Mark:

if you plan to never upgrade anything after you buy the computer, will be happy forever with the applications and OS that comes on the machine, then follow Roger’s advice and buy the cheaper unit, save $300, and risk being stuck in time right up front, knowing that what you have is what you get. Maybe this is OK, in which case Roger is right, but the cheapest machine. This is also an ok strategy if you plan to buy a newer machine each and every 12 to 18 months.

But if you want to run the newer OS versions when they arrive with all their new features, or add or update software a year after you bought the machine that will require a newer version of the OS, then I suggest you buy as much power as you can afford up front, because you will need it a year or two from now. 10.3 with Office V.x is a fine combinations. But Office 2004 is MUCH better, but requires more processing power. You may not be happy with 10.3 and Office 2004 on a 700+ MHz machine.

And I am sticking to my story too!

-Owen-

FROM ROGER BORN

Owen:

Thanks for clarifying what you were saying. I took this off the staff thingy because they probably don’t want to hear about my Macs.

My wife and I live near a Naval Base, which regularly throws away perfectly good Macs because they are old.

At the thrift store nearby, we can buy old LCIIs, 6100s, 8600s, etc. for a pitance of $5 for the case and $5 for the monitor, and $1 for the keyboard and mouse. Most of these are maxed out with RAM and a slightly larger harddrive. They also have all their files and apps on them, but that’s another story.

We use these for our kids at the school where Connie teaches. So far we have about 18 of these, all set up for word processing only. We use older versions of Word Perfect, MSWord 5, and a few generic word apps. They all have spellcheck and grammarcheck too.

The kids who have PCs at home will complain about these old computers and how slow they are, but so far, all of them can touch-type their homework and stories without any speed loss whatsoever. None of them has been keyboarding so fast that they outran the CPU, filled up the buffer, and have to sit and wait for the computer to catch up with them. On the contrary, with WP, no one can tell the difference on any of these computers, regardless of how old or how new, or what OS they are using.

We are running Mac OS 7.5 to 9.1 on the appropriate Macs. They are all set up for their optimal OS and app versions.

Since it all works, I would not think about upgrading anything with these guys. Not doing so has left me with no end of free time, which I spend with my wife exploring the mysteries of this fascinating place we live in.

None of this is probably ‘real world’ and is probably un-American, since we are not eternally trying to ekk out the last vestage of speed from our computers, like everyone else is.

I leave it to you to figure out if I am being smart or stupid in doing things this way.

Regards,
Roger

FROM MARK MARCANTONIO

Owen and Roger:

You two characters crack me up. All I ask for is some simple buying advice and it turns into Crossfire! It looks like I’m going with the 1gig iBook.

Since my students use it on occasion, it needs to be a bit more rugged than the Powerbook case.

Secondly, I’m trying to squeeze in the Apple Care, and third, if I change to a PowerBook a few teacher will question how I am able to get a new laptop based upon the different look 9by staying with the iBook they won’t have a clue).

Thanks for all the “Deep Thoughts”
Mark

FROM ROGER BORN

Mark:

Owen and me in Crossfire?

Nah. We’re best of buds.

‘sides, we come at this from totally different perspectives.

anyways – glad we could help.

seems you already got it together there.

great choice!

regards
Roger

FROM OWEN RUBIN

Thanks Roger. This is a great, but obviously very different story, so I understand why what I said might be confusing.

As you make know, I too got a bunch of old Macs and donated them to food bank agencies to use, and I too made sure they had exactly what they were running when they were new, which worked great when they were new.

You should see how fast a PowerBook 180c is with System 7.6 and just a few apps. The thing screams. Of course, that is not the original OS, but it works well. I would never go any further. Nor would I change the apps either, so I agree with you in that case.

I will not repeat what I meant in Mark’s case as I think you get that now.

Thanks for the message. And keep up the good work.

To Mark:

More of a point, counterpoint and not any animosity at all, I like Roger! I just wanted to be sure I made myself clear, because as Roger pointed out, I did not do that well explaining my view point.

I hope it was at least of some value to you.

-Owen-